Injectors

[6L strokin]

If you upgrade the stock injectors, even with a small upgrade used with a tuner, is that enough power to pretty much surpass the stock power and upgrade everything from turbo to trans and tc? Im wanting to get another minor something to have more than just a chipped truck but without upgrading the whole truck. That possible? if injectors are out of the ?, anything else you can do? fass or airdog upgrade make a difference on factory injectors?

got the intake, exhaust, tuner, and occasional propane, looking into the intake elbow, other than that.....?:confused:

[LIPD]

the next step is in the works.. for those of you intrested in a small bump past the truner but not crazy

[6L strokin]

what exactly is that step then?? very interested!

[mikeym]

well, to make power, you need air and fuel. since the stock turbo supplies all the air we need for stock injectors, dont look to air for power unless its nitrous (super cold air). fuel is where the power is gonna come from. injectors making the biggest difference, with something like a system upgrade (lines, regulator, pump) coming in behind it.

[6L strokin]

ya, thats what im interested in..injectors, but it that gonna add too much power and have to upgrade the TC, trans, etc. or just using the sct work fine? and is there any benefit to the stock injectors for add a fass or airdog fuel system, or you need injectors to benfit from that?

[LIPD]

well, to make power, you need air and fuel. since the stock turbo supplies all the air we need for stock injectors, dont look to air for power unless its nitrous (super cold air). fuel is where the power is gonna come from. injectors making the biggest difference, with something like a system upgrade (lines, regulator, pump) coming in behind it.

the stock turbo doesnt even come close to supplying all the air we need for stock injectors. Larger turbos have proven hp increase of 30-40 hp by add more air. Nitrous is useless if there wasnt fuel left over.

Injectors are need and some mods to the fuel system and some mods to the turbo. We are workingon some stuff if you wan the detials you can call me at 631-285-1174

[mikeym]

no offense, because im waiting on a turbo from you also, but i dont think anyone has dynod more than 10 or so horsepower with a 65mm or bigger turbo on stock injectors. i havent seen any charts yet at least. please post the 30-40whp gains. i would imagine some of the power coming from nitrous is a result of the super cold air. from looking at my dyno pulls on tape, there is a very faint bit of smoke on my top end at 30psi. it would be nothing at all to dial in a few more psi to clean it all the way up...

[LIPD]

PSi does not equal air Nos is air so you are adding more air and making more power making it colder makes the air more dense which increases it O2 contian per CF. So you are saying that you make more power whenyou shot nos with stock injectors but dont need more air that is a contradiction. NOS is Air not fuel.

[mikeym]

ok, but i still dont believe 30-40hp with a turbo swap on factory injectors. you hardly get that after youve done injectors! show me 40hp gain on stock injectored truck, and ill be the first to put my foot in my mouth...

[PSD 60L Fx4]

ok, but i still dont believe 30-40hp with a turbo swap on factory injectors. you hardly get that after youve done injectors! show me 40hp gain on stock injectored truck, and ill be the first to put my foot in my mouth...

Terri's truck went from 414 with the stock turbo to 444 with the 65mm wheel. Both on Dunbar's dyno. She has both graphs (posted, too) available.

[mikeym]

not trying to discredit anyone, but from what ive heard, i was under the impression a lot of that 30hp gain was from some pretty drastic tuning that ultimately blew the headgaskets. there are more than a few 03-04 trucks with "safe" race files making 425whp with cylinder pressures that are in check. push it a little more, 430 is possible, hell i even heard of a few in the upper 430s! thats why it was hard to believe the truck was truely maxed at 414hp. if his is not the case, please forgive me. either way, its a sweet truck making great power...

[6L strokin]

i have a question a little off topic, but still related...i gotta buddy with an 01 7.3L only upgrades he has are intake, exhaust, 140 horse TS performance chip, and an aftermarket turbo..NO injectors. His truck smokes like a freight train! too much air and not enough fuel cause smoke too?

and mikey, im in the market for some small injectors (150-180cc) are you saying for 2gs worth of injecters, only gain 30-40 horse? somebody please tell me, would i get any benefit of power gain at all using stock injecters and turbo but adding a fuel system? of are the injectors maxed out already and cant even push more fuel out if they had it available? im just wanting a lil extra power, some more smoke, without spending everything i got! injectors and/or fuel sytem if neccesarily seem the most reasonable to me..

talked to LIPD last night and he seems to have a pretty good setup goin on! wish i was closer so he could use my truck as a test truck and hook me up with the turbo wheel and some sticks! haha

[mikeym]

smoke comes from too much fuel, the air cleans it up.

factory injectors are maxed out with an sct. 190cc injectors are considerably less than 2k, and will make more power than a turbo replacement. you can get away with 190s on a stock fuel system if you had to, but you wont maximize the gain. the only downside to injectors is there is potential for more heat if you dont equal them out with more air (turbo, intercooler, nitrous). a turbo swap will drop your egts, lessen the smoke, however you need more fuel than stock to maximize the gains.

theres no single mod that will give you the big power increase, however if power and smoke is what your lookin for, some 190s would be the ticket...

[npccpartsman]

not trying to discredit anyone, but from what ive heard, i was under the impression a lot of that 30hp gain was from some pretty drastic tuning that ultimately blew the headgaskets. there are more than a few 03-04 trucks with "safe" race files making 425whp with cylinder pressures that are in check. push it a little more, 430 is possible, hell i even heard of a few in the upper 430s! thats why it was hard to believe the truck was truely maxed at 414hp. if his is not the case, please forgive me. either way, its a sweet truck making great power...

Come to the horses mouth for the real story.

The headgaskets were already toast from running the old Predator tuning and still made 414hp. Had NOTHING to do with Matt's tuning---I don't care what ANYONE tells you. The tuning was the same file I run on the street everyday with NO issues. Hell, we didn't even change the tuning when we installed the bigger turbo and STILL had no issues. Ran smooth as a dream. We really don't know what the potential for the turbo was because of the puking. I've seen the claims of upper 430's with tuning and I'd love to dyno against any of them on Dunbar's Dyno. Not saying it isn't possible---I believe it is--I'd just have to see. I do know that the turbo made quite a bit of difference over the stock turbo in both performance and EGT's.

[6L strokin]

hey mikey, where can you find 190s for considerably less than 2K?? everywhere ive seen, that is about as good as it gets! if they are a lot less are they still good/reliable and gotta warranty? Also, would the smoke be just annoying and unbearable or just leave a nice trail? i know some people are running big sticks and got TOO much smoke...if not i may do that minor turbo upgrade too..?

right now im running stock exhaust with 4" pipe where the cat and muffler was and a 5"tip. would i get any benefit at all (egts, flow, etc.) from a 4" DP? i thought either doing that or going 4 down and 5 rest of the way but heard without fuel and turbo boost lag is sloooow!

and could anyone explain why like my earlier reply why a 7.3 with chip and turbo only would smoke soo much??

and lastly, this may only be on takeoff, but ive noticed when from a dead stop, lot of lag, and smoke blows out...soon as the smoke clears, turbo takes off. with big sticks making some smoke make the whole powerband less powerfull or would it just still have some boost lag, takeoff, and be throwin some smoke at the camero i just took off and left??

after i got some more minor upgrades, im plannin on doin some dynos...how long should i wait inbetween runs? im wantin to do a couple different ones like with/without pane, etc.

thanks!

[PSDPlayer]

Hey guess what! Injectors cost money. A brand new in the box injector without a core is 400 dollars. Multiply that times 8. Now take them apart and remachine them to move more fuel. Now offer a warranty. Guess what its fucking expensive. When you get larger injectors you need to be able to deliver more fuel to them. The fuel system is expensive too. So are the machines and tools to make all this shit.

[PSDPlayer]

Ok back to the turbo psi issues. Unless LIPD has changed something from the last wheel he "created" then I would be leary of putting it on. If he would like to call me and let me know of his latest upgrade then I'm willing to listen. However, when you take a wheel from a truck that has an engine that doesn't spin past 2600rpm and bolt the front housing of the turbo to the turbo that belongs to an engine that spins to 4200 rpm, its just not gonna work. Will you get some power down low? Yes. With the compressor wheel choke it self out at higher shaft speeds? Yes. Can you run the same boost level with a more efficient wheel? Yes. Can you spin the stock turbo faster and create more boost? Yes. Does it create so much pressure in the exhaust that it fights the motor from making more power? Yes. So the moral of the story is... Find a compressor wheel that matches what the shaft speed will be. Find out what the drive side pressure will be to create an efficient peek boost from that turbo combo. And then find out if you have enough fuel to burn COMPLETELY.

[PSDPlayer]

The 7.3L concern is different. For one thing find out what TS did to the chip. There is not a fucking chance you are getting 140hp from the chip. A 7.3L lacks the oil volume from its tiny little high pressure oil pump to completely fire the injectors. Even stock. If you run the pump at 100% you will kill it. What aftermarket turbo is on it? GTP38R? If you just mash the pedal it will dump fuel before it can build sufficient pressure in the high pressure system to create the injection pressure needed. So what you get is pulse width with no pressure and the fuel pours out like a stream instead of a mist. You need injection pressure to atomize fuel. Also make sure the exhaust backpressure valve isn't sticking on that truck. The next thing is the airbox. The stock 7.3L box is dogshit. It needs to be replaced. Hell even ford changed it 3 times. And as far as the downpipe on the 6.0L going to a 4" pipe right there is pointless since the outlet of the turbo is 3.5". So the 3.5" pipe keeps the velocity up as it exits the turbo on its way to the 4" expansion and out the back.

[6L strokin]

hey doug, i know the sticks for the 6Ls cost a lot, that is why i was wondering where mikey saw them for less than 2k! ive seen some places that charge well over 3! so thats why i asked, and wondered if they were just shit and had no warranty! and not to be rude, but dont you get compensated to a certain extent when you turn in the core or can the core not be reused?

and i dont know for a fact, but thats what TS claims that the chip puts out on it, its a 6 pos. chip. but yes, its thick black smoke throughout the power band, thats why i wondered if it was possible to get too much air and make smoke...he was considering injectors next, but that should he do to clean it up first? better programming...? not sure what the turbo is..i could find out, think he said he spent like 2000 or 2500 on it.

LIPD claims that he did change the wheel design, and to be honest, my knowledge and understanding of this stuff is still pretty minor! thats why i like to ask a lot of questions!! always do before i get real serious into somethin.

so i should be fine with my exhaust then? pretty much a 4" so if i did anything i would eventually go 5. but about that injector question...if i did do sticks, i know it would blow more smoke, but would it be like on takeoff when the accererator pump is turned up too much that actually NOT be as fast, or when the turbo initially spools up it will be more powerful and leave a small trail? cuz i would hate to spend a lot of money for my truck to be slower!

[mikeym]

shop around dude, theres only ONE place in the country that sells 190s for that much money. you will get your full core back as long as all the injectors are in good shape. hypermax, casserly, bean; they are all well under 2k for the set...

http://www.beansdieselperformance.com/03-06injectors.htm

jeremys wheel did change, it got bigger. what his machinist did to the housing, and what the wheel came off of, i dont know. but the first new wheel/housing should install today. only downside to it getting bigger is that the turbine doesnt. get too big on the intake side and the turbine cant keep up, causing ill effects. we will just have to wait and see. needless to say, ive bought one myself, just waiting for it to show up...

if you add injectors, you will be considerably faster all across the board. you will have tremendous smoke off the line, and it will stay smokey even when the turbo lights. a stock turbo simply cant clean up 190s...

theres no power gain with 5" that i know of, but it sounds cool as hell. very loud...

[blowin smoke]

This is info on the new wheel and housing if you have any questions ask away. There seems to be less lag off the line and boost will go right up to 32lbs instantly, Max boost is 39lbs. My egt's are about 100-150 degree's cooler and it takes longer for them to get there. It does clean up some of the smoke, where it was heavy and black before now it is a dark haze. As far as performance it pulls harder all the way through the rpm range. next week I will be going back to the dyno and will post up the sheets of before and after. this was done w/ tadds race file I will get the results on a street file and post them later. Jason

[mikeym]

sounds good. when you dyno, just make sure that nothing else changes, so we know what it made before and after with just the wheel/housing swap. i would think a 64mm turbo would be able to clean 190s up though...

how does the bad boy whistle? compared to 03 or 05 truck?

[blowin smoke]

the whistle is ok its def. louder than stock. I will be using tadd's dyno tune wich is the one I used before and no other mods have been done since. we kind of knew it would not clean the injectors up 100%. Jason

[LIPD]

Unless LIPD has changed something from the last wheel he "created" then I would be leary of putting it on. If he would like to call me and let me know of his latest upgrade then I'm willing to listen.

I called, he listen - I think i set him straight

[PSDPlayer]

hey doug, i know the sticks for the 6Ls cost a lot, that is why i was wondering where mikey saw them for less than 2k! ive seen some places that charge well over 3! so thats why i asked, and wondered if they were just shit and had no warranty! and not to be rude, but dont you get compensated to a certain extent when you turn in the core or can the core not be reused?

and i dont know for a fact, but thats what TS claims that the chip puts out on it, its a 6 pos. chip. but yes, its thick black smoke throughout the power band, thats why i wondered if it was possible to get too much air and make smoke...he was considering injectors next, but that should he do to clean it up first? better programming...? not sure what the turbo is..i could find out, think he said he spent like 2000 or 2500 on it.

LIPD claims that he did change the wheel design, and to be honest, my knowledge and understanding of this stuff is still pretty minor! thats why i like to ask a lot of questions!! always do before i get real serious into somethin.

so i should be fine with my exhaust then? pretty much a 4" so if i did anything i would eventually go 5. but about that injector question...if i did do sticks, i know it would blow more smoke, but would it be like on takeoff when the accererator pump is turned up too much that actually NOT be as fast, or when the turbo initially spools up it will be more powerful and leave a small trail? cuz i would hate to spend a lot of money for my truck to be slower!

Here is the deal with the core. If you return a dead injector that can be reused then you get some money back. 185 Dollars to be exact. However if the core is considered to be junk, then you get back zero. The internal upper o-ring is not replacable at the end user level. If you give a dealer back a dead 190 or 250 injector then guess what its not a rebuildable core. If the spool valve is dead or broken then its a junk core. Im just trying to keep people aware of the cost of stuff. Going by the failure rate of factory injectors vs aftermarket. I wouldn't be scared to put a set of injectors in anything. You can turn down a 250 to run like stock. Or turn down a 190. If you don't have the fuel available at the time, then just turn them down and get the fuel system.

Back to the 7.3L issue. The smoke is in the program. Also there are wastegate duty cycle controls and exhaust backpressure controls that will affect the spooling of the turbo. What turbo is on that truck?

Ok the wheel thing again. I talked to Jeremy earlier actually as I was headed for MC Donalds. He did confirm what I had been told by someone else as to what changes he made. It will be interesting to see what we can do with it to keep the longevity of the bushings with the same shaft speeds. Same boost levels with cooler temps is a good thing. We will still eventually run up against a wall where the drive side pressure will get high enough to cost power instead of creating it.

Ok so to recap. The get more power, you need more air and more fuel. Injection timing plays a role in there, but lets keep this simple. You can get a larger injector and run it at 85% instead of trying to run a stock one at 115% which will cause it to fail. The fuel system is needed to supply the injectors with the extra fuel they flow. Upping the fuel pressure will only help if it was low to begin with, and Jeremy's or Bean's wheel is a short term upgrade until a real larger frame turbo is built with VGT.

[PSDPlayer]

Unless LIPD has changed something from the last wheel he "created" then I would be leary of putting it on. If he would like to call me and let me know of his latest upgrade then I'm willing to listen.

I called, he listen - I think i set him straight

Set me straight. Hmmmm.

[6L strokin]

ok, i had this brainstorm while driving earlier, and doug saying more air and fuel...more power! i would imagine (if it would even work) that this would mainly help is a bigger injector/stock turbo combo. You got more fuel, you need more air. well, would it be possible (if this is a dumb idea, dont critisize too much) if running a bigger injector, to get some extra air needed for the extra fuel by using outside air being injected? Like using a propane tank but filling it with compressed air instead of propane...cheap to fill, cold air, flow as much as needed! does this make sense at all or would the air inside just dump out and flow through the engine? if not, at least it made ya think!

and mikey is the reason some of the others are cheaper just because you have to send in your injectors and they throw on some bigger nozzles? most of the more expensive ones you buy a whole injector and just send yours in..main benefit would just be not having the truck down for a few days.

[LIPD]

it would work for about 30 seconds

[mikeym]

thats what nitrous is!

some people are cheaper because they are being realistic. if you send yours in, you dont pay a core. if they send em to you, they charge you a 2k core, thats refunded based on the condition of the injectors you sent. ive heard mr casserly has turned around his customers injectors in 24 hours, which is pretty awesome, and his prices are competitive to boot.

[6L strokin]

why only 30 seconds? it would take longer than that just for the air to bleed out of the tank with a 1/4" line...and i already had the pane tank, and im pretty much guessin pane and injectors on stock turbo...egts and smoke here i come! i guess i just need to go ahead and order the sct and see what it shifts like using pane and maybe itll be fast enough....doubt it tho.

i was only scts website the other day and they said they are lookin for an 03 to test on and i emailed em...any idea how long it would take to decide and if they tell you that they dont want you cuz i was gonna wait before i buy one to see if i could qualify for that...

what do you guys think my truck would run in the 1/4 with sct tuning and pane? low 13s or high 12s?

[mikeym]

you want to have custom tunes made for you. sct is more than likely looking to test their generic tunes. i wouldnt waste your time with the compressed air idea, nitrous is on the market to take care of this. you will make a lot more power with an sct, and save your trans at the same time. if you dial up the propane, a low 13 might be possible. 13.5 is about as fast as youll go on a tune, most people are high 13s. i wouldnt expect more than .3-.5 seconds from the pane, and youd need a lot for that...

[PSDPlayer]

Compressed air is 71% nitrogen 28% oxygen and like 1% bad shit from Mikey's tailpipe. Nitrous oxide is 2 nitrogen molecules fused to one Oxigen molecule. At about 540 degrees F the oxigen splits off and you have a ton more available then you would if you compressed air.

[PSDPlayer]

Veryfast6.0 is running in the 13.40s - 13.60s with SCT only. But when he gets the balls to bolt on the wetshot then its a mid to high 12 second truck.

[sredish]

and like 1% bad shit from Mikey's tailpipe.

now THAT'S some funny shit..... :D

[PSDPlayer]

Wait a sec. Your next question will be well then why would more air from a larger turbo be better than a tank. Well it all has to do with volumetric efficiency and temperature. If I could cram 60psi into the motor while keeping the outlet temps from the turbo around the stock level going into the motor I would have a shitload of dense air.

[mikeym]

now THAT'S some funny shit..... :D

doug is just mad my pipe is bigger than his...:eek:

[heinzboy]

Veryfast6.0 is running in the 13.40s - 13.60s with SCT only. But when he gets the balls to bolt on the wetshot then its a mid to high 12 second truck.

Damn, send me his tune.....

[PSDPlayer]

It might be bigger but its aluminized dogshit.

[PSDPlayer]

Damn, send me his tune.....

Shave 1000lbs from your truck and go to the track every weekend for 4 years and drive like he can.

[heinzboy]

Shave 1000lbs from your truck and go to the track every weekend for 4 years and drive like he can.

Hell, I would think he would weigh more than me... Them 22.5s are heavy bastards.

[mikeym]

i think its a srw...

[PSDPlayer]

It is SRW. And it has all the misc parts removed for weight savings.

[PSD 60L Fx4]

not trying to discredit anyone, but from what ive heard, i was under the impression a lot of that 30hp gain was from some pretty drastic tuning that ultimately blew the headgaskets. there are more than a few 03-04 trucks with "safe" race files making 425whp with cylinder pressures that are in check. push it a little more, 430 is possible, hell i even heard of a few in the upper 430s! thats why it was hard to believe the truck was truely maxed at 414hp. if his is not the case, please forgive me. either way, its a sweet truck making great power...

The tune we ran with the 414 and the tune that turned 444 was the exact same file. The truck was puking several weeks before we did the first dyno run at Commerece.

I tried running some "hotter" files at Galinburg AFTER the initial 444 run, but they ended up actually losing power because the heads were lifting so bad it was puking everywhere. The heads on the truck were leaking before the SCT was ever installed several months ago, from a wonderful 65 horse predator that ate them for lunch.

And thank you very much, the truck has not puked a drop after we installed new gaskets- and we replaced the stock compononets with stock components, not studs. It is running a MUCH hotter tune now; we will see what it really it really turns in April. Unlike other tuners would like to make you think, I don't have to blow head gaskets to make power- at least I don't break crankshafts.

[heinzboy]

The tune we ran with the 414 and the tune that turned 444 was the exact same file. The truck was puking several weeks before we did the first dyno run at Commerece.

I tried running some "hotter" files at Galinburg AFTER the initial 444 run, but they ended up actually losing power because the heads were lifting so bad it was puking everywhere. The heads on the truck were leaking before the SCT was ever installed several months ago, from a wonderful 65 horse predator that ate them for lunch.

And thank you very much, the truck has not puked a drop after we installed new gaskets- and we replaced the stock compononets with stock components, not studs. It is running a MUCH hotter tune now; we will see what it really it really turns in April. Unlike other tuners would like to make you think, I don't have to blow head gaskets to make power- at least I don't break crankshafts.


Who broke a crankshaft?

[PSD 60L Fx4]

Who broke a crankshaft?

You can see pictures of it over at FTE.

I won't go into details of it on here, but it happened the FIRST day of running "the safe tuner's" Tow file. I have the engine apart and am trying to clean up the mess now:upyours:

[PSDPlayer]

But for some reason we need to figure out where your torque goes...

[PSDPlayer]

You can see pictures of it over at FTE.

I won't go into details of it on here, but it happened the FIRST day of running "the safe tuner's" Tow file. I have the engine apart and am trying to clean up the mess now:upyours:
Post the pics over here.

[PSD 60L Fx4]

Post the pics over here.

I'm not doing battle online over the subject.

All that needs to be spoken will be spoken in April.

[PSDPlayer]

Its not a battle. Its pics.

[PSD 60L Fx4]

Its not a battle. Its pics.

It will turn into one when I am done:D

I'll repost them here shortly, but I am not going into details on what happened at the moment.

[6L strokin]

well, can yall at least give me that is was a pretty decent idea (if it would work that is)! haha. and hey, 30 seconds is all you need for a pass or 2 at the track! i just figured if i ever go sticks and no turbo, pane would be TOO much fuel added and just some air would help a minor bit with the sticks!

http://www.truckxpressions.com/Search.aspx?SubCatID=65&VID=215&TopCatID=7

why are these so cheap btw? because they are cheap, or cuz you gotta put em together?

well anyways, sounds like the LIPD setup is gonna be the way to go...!

[PSDPlayer]

Thats only a nozzle. What are you thinkin that will do for you?

[LIPD]

better question is who is goign to install the nozzle

[PSDPlayer]

It probably comes with detailed instructions.

[mikeym]

It probably comes with detailed instructions.

lol.

nozzle swapping by itself is virtually pointless in my opinion. you cant hold any more fuel in the injector, so where is the power coming from? :confused:

[PSDPlayer]

If you can atomize it better then it will give you a bump, but the nozzle should be used with a bigger injector.

[6L strokin]

shit, like i said, i dont know anything bout it! thats why i asked! well, i guess im gonna wait for LIPD to come out with his setup! let me know when its fully tested and ready to go!

[PSDPlayer]

You are only like 30 years too late. There is a dragster sitting at the Don Garlits Drag racing musuem. It has a giant tank of compressed air in the front of it. Needless to say, but they use superchargers today for a reason.

[heinzboy]

Is there a benefit in Running say a 275cc injector with a 250cc nozzle or vise versa?

[PSDPlayer]

No

[UNBROKEN]

Is there a benefit in Running say a 275cc injector with a 250cc nozzle or vise versa?

Been there...done that. Like Doug said...NO.

[LIPD]

yes there is benefit to matching nozzel flow to injectors size... depends on nozzels and injectors an dif a fun game to play to find the flow rates of nozzels and capicity o finjectors makes me feel like i am back in college tryign to solve a mathmatic equasion with a million vairables

[PSDPlayer]

The question was should he run a 275cc injector with 250cc nozzles. The answer would be no.

[LIPD]

the answer may be yes... what size nozzels on the 250? what size are 275 nozzels what are the flow rates what pressure will he be running. what rpm does he want to make the power how much timing advance is he going to run... Its not a cut and dry answer..

[UNBROKEN]

Its not a cut and dry answer
It was for me...I tried that combo...it didn't do any better than any injector I've run that was matched.


What's the fastest truck you've had a hand in building anyway, Jeremy ?

[LIPD]

Who's nozzels did you use and whos injectors and what was the sizing and flow rates? maybe can do some quicky math to explain why your experiment didnt work.

[Abrannan19]

why did you avoid Rich's question?

[LIPD]

I will not get into a pissing Match over hp or et # i am not that type of person if you want that fight some one else will have to chime in. I am just trying to help people get the best mods for there money and not waste time or money on things that we can explain with simple engineering. If we could get the flow rates of the nozzels he tried and give the rpm th emotor spins and the injection pressure then be can calulate how much fuel he was flowing and determine why he had a problem.

I have had my hand in a few low 13s 6.0L and a few low 13s 7.3L all on fuel i wil be in the 12s on fuel 6.0L in the next few weeks and they are not running monster injectors either.

[PSDPlayer]

I had an 07 truck with 400 miles on it in front of me the last 2 days with dynomite diesel injectors, which are nozzle upgrades only. They gauranteed the guy 50hp and they did jack shit.

[mikeym]

which says using larger nozzles than the injectors capacity is worthless. using one smaller than the capacity does nothing but limit your injector to a smaller size, which again, is worthless...

[Abrannan19]

which says using larger nozzles than the injectors capacity is worthless. using one smaller than the capacity does nothing but limit your injector to a smaller size, which again, is worthless...

good call captain obvious:cool:

[mikeym]

adam, this is toby that brought up the question remember. if you get too technical, he flat out wont understand...

[Abrannan19]

http://emcsmileys.com/s/531.gif

[LIPD]

the point is how do you know what the nozzels on the injector that you have flow? Just cause you have a 250cc or 275cc fuel capicity doesnt mean it will flow that. which is why i asked for the specs. on the nozzels. If you increase the nozzel on the stock injector you will see little to no gain as ford has designed the injector and flow rate just about perfect for the stock nozzel any larger injector and you will need a nozzel but the question is how big. To big and you will bottom out the injector to small and you are not getting the fuel you paid for.

[heinzboy]

adam, this is toby that brought up the question remember. if you get too technical, he flat out wont understand...

:upyours:

[mikeym]

i think what everyone is assuming is that when you get say 250cc injectors, you are getting a perfect mate for a nozzle.

[LIPD]

hmm we are assuming things you know what they say about that. the guy tuning and the guy building injectors are different the rpm you are turning on your motor is different the fuel system may be different and so on. This is a more complex problem then one might think it requires lots of planing and communacation between your tuner, injector builder and engine builder you just cant slap parts together and expect the result to be correct you may get results but it may not be what you intended.

[WAO Racing]

In that case, maybe we shoulda just called International for which turbo or wheel would be better than the factory one? That would of took alot of work out of your part. Damn I should of been a multi-millon dollar problem solver.:D
But the real problem isn't with the fuel as much as with the turbo's.

[UNBROKEN]

There are some good turbo choices out there....you just have to be willing to get off the VGT stuff. I personally like the VGT...but nothing good seems to be coming down the line any time soon. Even the Garret turbos me and Dalpilot were gonna test are on the back burner now....found that out after they said they were shipping to me in 2 days. Oh well...time to go non-vgt.

ATS has some stuff....but since Tadd built all that stuff and I'm not an ATS fan...I'll get mine through Tadd directly.
Turbonetics also has several things on the market.
All are expensive and require new pedestals and stuff...but they'll move some serious air...
The turbo I'm about to run is 1900 bucks with my discount....so this stuff ain't for the faint of heart....but if you want a well matched set-up to drive every day that makes huge power...you gotta be ready to let go of some big cash.

[mikeym]

id prefer to keep vgt also

[UNBROKEN]

If Garrett had sent me the variable VT42R like they said they would...I might have something cool to talk about...but for whatever reason they didn't and I'm not gonna worry about it anymore...I waited 10 weeks on it and they stalled. Hopefully they'll continue working on those...since there's one hell of a market for it.

[heinzboy]

If Garrett had sent me the variable VT42R like they said they would...I might have something cool to talk about...but for whatever reason they didn't and I'm not gonna worry about it anymore...I waited 10 weeks on it and they stalled. Hopefully they'll continue working on those...since there's one hell of a market for it.

You didnt get it because it was sent to me.














































LOL

[heinzboy]

but if you want a well matched set-up to drive every day that makes huge power...you gotta be ready to let go of some big cash.


That ain't no shit and the more you keep buying, the more you keep having to upgrade everything else to handle it. Its a never ending cycle.

[mikeym]

That ain't no shit and the more you keep buying, the more you keep having to upgrade everything else to handle it. Its a never ending cycle.


what are you complaining about big money. :upyours:

[UNBROKEN]

The thing is...I know that turbo will kick ass. A variable geometry GT42R is all it is....man....quick spool and that much air. That thing will easily support 650 on #2

I just don't know where the deal went south. I guess it has something to do with me leaving DI...oh well.

[heinzboy]

The thing is...I know that turbo will kick ass. A variable geometry GT42R is all it is....man....quick spool and that much air. That thing will easily support 650 on #2

I just don't know where the deal went south. I guess it has something to do with me leaving DI...oh well.

So is DI getting them now? Or was it all canceled?

[PSDPlayer]

I spoke with Garrett about this. Its a GT40 frame. And as of last week it was in the flow tester being mapped out.

[heinzboy]

I spoke with Garrett about this. Its a GT40 frame. And as of last week it was in the flow tester being mapped out.

Cool, any release dates?

[UNBROKEN]

I'm sure DI will get some...just not me through DI.
I heard a rumor about someone selling blood and semen to buy all of them up if he has to. LOL

[mikeym]

Cool, any release dates?

city diesel said they ship out in 2 days....

:upyours:

[heinzboy]

I'm sure DI will get some...just not me through DI.
I heard a rumor about someone selling blood and semen to buy all of them up if he has to. LOL

I heard the same thing. That means I will get one first if I don't twin this fat pig.

[UNBROKEN]

Well...the first ones will go out for BETA testing before anything is released...You might try to get in on the BETA test if you can.
I've just waited too long...it's time to persue other options.

Oh yea...last I heard...they made the first ones for 05^ pedestals. They initially were supposed to make them for 03/04 pedestals for Tim and myself...that didn't happen though. I even picked up an 05 pedestal to get going on the testing....I finally just gave up though.
I like doing testing and stuff...but I ain't gonna wait a year when I need something now.

[LIPD]

It is going to cost money but eleminating the Vgt may not be the answer unless you are going compounded turbos. Larger singles will scrafice low end power and performance for high rpm horsepower. Not the best for a truck that has to work and play.

[heinzboy]

Well...the first ones will go out for BETA testing before anything is released...You might try to get in on the BETA test if you can.
I've just waited too long...it's time to persue other options.

Oh yea...last I heard...they made the first ones for 05^ pedestals. They initially were supposed to make them for 03/04 pedestals for Tim and myself...that didn't happen though. I even picked up an 05 pedestal to get going on the testing....I finally just gave up though.
I like doing testing and stuff...but I ain't gonna wait a year when I need something now.

Ok, so there are some out there already for an 05?

[UNBROKEN]

Not yet...but there will be one or 2 sent out for testing soon. I have no idea to who now.
Maybe Doug can shed some light on it...since he talked to the guys there and was gonna tune it for me.

[heinzboy]

It is going to cost money but eleminating the Vgt may not be the answer unless you are going compounded turbos. Larger singles will scrafice low end power and performance for high rpm horsepower. Not the best for a truck that has to work and play.

Compounds may be the better way to go for MY needs, but I have yet seen a kit available NOW. I would rather have a BIG fast spooling turbo than compounds myself. Work and Play huh? When your talking the money were talking, Damn Straight.

[UNBROKEN]

All mine does is play...so some lag just doesn't concern me.
I know it's a deal breaker for a lot of people though.

[heinzboy]

All mine does is play...so some lag just doesn't concern me.
I know it's a deal breaker for a lot of people though.

Yeah, when your loaded up (32000k +) I need it down low. Hell i wanna play also though.:D

[LIPD]

toby you need compounds and i told you what to do. and that i would take care of you.

[mikeym]

i would think a big vgt would overheat towing super heavy like that, compounds prolly would be better for you toby.

bye, bye whistle!

[PSDPlayer]

Why would it overheat?

[mikeym]

the vanes would stay open longer tryin to get everything movin. you got a turbo spinning wide open, wasting a lot of the air. instead of having everything closed up, and only spinning as fast as needed. a turbo spinning 30k rpms will create more heat than one spinning 10k, no?

[PSDPlayer]

No. You couldn't be more wrong.

[LIPD]

with the size injectors toby is wanting the stock vgt will be way out of it range to deal with the air flow required. you would need some thing with two times the air flow of the stock turbo to deal with that amount of fuel. and atleast if its vgt you can maintian some drivablity if it a single if its a compound it would be better.

[mikeym]

No. You couldn't be more wrong.

why do the egts rise, and then cool down then?

[_CH_]

why do the egts rise, and then cool down then?
because your exhaust gasses get hotter and cooler in the course of driving :D :upyours:


yall think a VT42R could be run without a full fuel system upgrade? If so….and if they come out….id shell out for one

[PSDPlayer]

There is certainly enough backpressure available now to drive it. Mikey the turbo is closed down low to get it to spool. It opens up to reduce backpressure up top. The EGTs come down as exhaust pressure drops and boost comes up to burn the fuel.

[EPDP99]

wow long but alot of fun to read!! Very informative all at the same time. to that i say thanks!!

[fuzzys69]

i would rather have compounds, i have a big single and it sucks ass

[heinzboy]

i would rather have compounds, i have a big single and it sucks ass

for everyday driving? or for pulling? Compounds would be cool, but if you could do the same with a big VGT turbo, why get compounds. I wish there were more options available right now, cuz i will need something very soon. Like within 2 or 3 months.

[banksforddiesel99]

2 or 3 months is soon? dang i thought soon was like 2 or 3 weeks LOL

[fuzzys69]

for everyday driving? or for pulling? Compounds would be cool, but if you could do the same with a big VGT turbo, why get compounds. I wish there were more options available right now, cuz i will need something very soon. Like within 2 or 3 months.


for everday driving, for pulling its not that bad.

[_CH_]

for everday driving, for pulling its not that bad.

ya but a big VVT/VGT/whatever you feel like calling it ...... would be bad azz! almost to the point of better than compounds - no?

[heinzboy]

ya but a big VVT/VGT/whatever you feel like calling it ...... would be bad azz! almost to the point of better than compounds - no?

This is what I am thinking.

[PSDPlayer]

Big Vgt is compounds all in one.

[_CH_]

Big Vgt is compounds all in one.

so iz mo betta!

[mikeym]

yeah lots cheaper too, mikey likes

[LIPD]

Big Vgt is compounds all in one.

Explain?

[PSDPlayer]

I can close down the ehxaust side to get it to spool up and then open the exhaust side to relieve the pressure up top. A 7.3L has an exhaust housing that is too small. Its small to get it to spool and then uses the wastegate to allow it to flow enough exhaust at the top end. Its not there to limit boost its there to allow higher flow. The vgt is used to build exhaust pressure to spin up the turbo down low where there is little exhaust flow and then it opens in the top end to flow enough up top to not choke out the truck. Like having a bunch of exhaust housings in one.

[LIPD]

But where is the compounding of boost the multiplcation factor that exist when you introduce pressurized air into a turbo?

[mikeym]

geez, how about a 4th freakin page

[PSDPlayer]

If you have a boost level that remains efficient and burns off all the fuel you have and you have a pressue level in the motor that is driven off of a small amount of exhaust pressure. Do you really want people to mount a larger turbo in front of the small one? I know someone has taken that approach from the sled pullers and has run with it.

Compound turbocharging
Compound turbocharging is a technique used to achieve extremely high pressure ratios by having one turbocharger pressurize the air coming into the inlet of another. It is common in racing with diesel engines (For example tractor pulling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractor_pulling)) due to their combustion properties that take well to high boost pressures and are not limited by fuel stability like spark ignition engines. Boost pressures of around seven bar gauge pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_pressure) (101 psi) are common and as high as 10 bar (145psi) in some cases. A normal turbocharger has a maximum pressure ratio of around three but there are turbochargers in existence specially designed for high boost which have maximum pressure ratios of typically 4-5. In this configuration one turbocharger is used to pressurize the air coming into the inlet of the other, resulting in a multiplication of the pressure ratios. Same goes for exhaust plumbing. For example if both turbochargers are running at pressure ratios of 3.0 and the atmospheric pressure is one bar the resulting pressures will be three bar absolute pressure at the inlet of the second turbocharger and nine bar absolute pressure (eight bar gauge) at the inlet manifold of the engine. The pressure ratio in this example becomes nine.
An example of an engine utilising this configuration is at Cummins Racing (http://www.cumminsracing.com/)

Thats straight off of wikipedia.

So yes you caught me. I should have called it sequential twins in one.

[LIPD]

good deal Doug

[heinzboy]

Them single big VGT turbos are going to sell like hot cakes if they ever become available.

[UNBROKEN]

I couldn't agree more

[_CH_]

go build us one doug........ price it at 250.00 USD shipped :D :eek:

[6L strokin]

didnt this forum start out talking about me possibly getting some injectors?? haha. as of now, if i can ever get it running like it should with the sct...then add pane, ill need a tranny before anything else!

[_CH_]

didnt this forum start out talking about me possibly getting some injectors?? haha. as of now, if i can ever get it running like it should with the sct...then add pane, ill need a tranny before anything else!

i understand the pane if its for MPG, but if you want power.....and its a 6.0 (which as i see it, it is) - then why not get some naaaaaaaaaaaaws?
pane can just make your truck go *boom* if used for power

[6L strokin]

i really almost got nos...matter of fact was leanin waaaaaaaay toward it cuz it woulda been a lot cheaper. like 500 from summit i think. but nos is pretty much just for wot and i would think a lot harder to find a fill station traveling. theres only 1 around here that i know of. and with the pane, i can use it like you said for mpg, push the buttom for extra "merging power" and even set up for mpg you can tell a power difference! whenever i get all the sct tunes straightened out, im gonna go to the dyno and make sure how much power im adding, i think over like 75 horse is not very safe. oh, and you can get propane all over the nation at flying j!

[heinzboy]

If you get the correct Nitrous system it can be set to come on at various rpms or boost not just at WOT.

[mikeym]

toby and his nitrous

[heinzboy]

toby and his nitrous

And your point is What?

[6LCummins]

Yeah, when your loaded up (32000k +) I need it down low. Hell i wanna play also though.:D

You want DOWN LOW get a Cummins.

[heinzboy]

You want DOWN LOW get a Cummins.

Too bad they didnt come is a Ford F350 Body.

[PSDPlayer]

Uh 32000 lbs in a cummins is instant death to the 48RE bullshit.

[diesel71]

Uh 32000 lbs in a cummins is instant death to the 48RE bullshit.

agreed the 48re is crap to stat with:D

[mikeym]

Uh 32000 lbs in a cummins is instant death to the 48RE bullshit.

cummins cant hang with our stuff...

[UNBROKEN]

cummins cant hang with our stuff...

Dude...it's nice to have brand loyalty and all...but you're on crack if you actually believe that.
I love my truck...but it a CTD was offered in this body...that's what I'd be driving. We're figuring these things out...but they already figured out the old 12V's and stuff. Give me a P pump over HUEI any day.........

[mikeym]

i take it youve never seen talladega nights. lol, it was a joke

[PSDPlayer]

Dude...it's nice to have brand loyalty and all...but you're on crack if you actually believe that.
I love my truck...but it a CTD was offered in this body...that's what I'd be driving. We're figuring these things out...but they already figured out the old 12V's and stuff. Give me a P pump over HUEI any day.........

I agree that the HUEI isn't the easiest to work with. However, at one point in time it was less dangerous to work with. Since the pressure multiplication is in the injectors. Now that we are going to common rail in the 6.4L, I want to see what this will do to the truck market. I love the superduty body, but I have seen some bad ass looking slammed Dodge duallys. I know I'm not the oldest guy, but since my childhood I can only thank my dad for buying a ford with a real crew cab. His first one was a 94 IDI. Since our family trips had me and my brother riding in the back seat for hours on end and now looking at what I would have had to deal with in a dodge I can only feel sorry for the children of fathers that must hate their kids to buy a dodge with a FAKE back seat.

[mikeym]

I can only feel sorry for the children of fathers that must hate their kids to buy a dodge with a FAKE back seat.

lol, almost lost my hot chocolate

[UNBROKEN]

Doug...I know you've seen the cut away's with the fuel lines and stuff on the new motors...I also know you're thinking like I am...those things are HUGE.
Ladies and gentlemen....we're about to get fuel...and a LOT of it.

Dmax's laying down 500+ on stock turbos and injectors...we will too...and soon.

[PSDPlayer]

I have no doubt we will be getting something sick out of them, first things first is ehxaust.

[UNBROKEN]

We just gotta figure out how to turn off all the emissions bullshit...then we can do whatever we want.

[PSDPlayer]

Its already being worked on.

[banksforddiesel99]

uhhh ohhh.....

[mikeym]

will the suspension of 05-07 trucks swap over to 08s?

[_CH_]

damnit..... i dont wanna get a freakin 6.4, i HATE the headlights and tails.
if they do 500 on #2 & stock injectors/turbo with no problems tho, it might be hard to stay away. damnit.damnit. fuck.

[6L strokin]

i didnt know they were even gonna be able to do tuners with all the emissions bullshit. gonna be like the power jump from a 7.3 to a 6.0 then but more i guess...

[6L strokin]

oh ya, and if i was gonna get one of the big cxts or w/e fords version in...options are a cummins or CAT what the fuck wants a cummins when you can have a CATERPILLAR engine???

[heinzboy]

i didnt know they were even gonna be able to do tuners with all the emissions bullshit. gonna be like the power jump from a 7.3 to a 6.0 then but more i guess...

The computers were written by people and they will be broke by people. I have a feeling this 6.4 will make huge power when they get it cracked.

[_CH_]

The computers were written by people and they will be broke by people. I have a feeling this 6.4 will make huge power when they get it cracked.

no it wont. no it wont. no it wont.
dont say that..... i DO NOT want to get a new friggin truck, stop talkint about it :upyours: lol

[fuzzys69]

i was going to get one, but i changed my mind, i will prolly get one in like 2-3years

[UNBROKEN]

I'll be in the market for an 08 as soon as I can void the hell out of the warranty. LOL

[6LCummins]

cummins cant hang with our stuff...

hmmm show me 6L that is pushin over 800HP on #2 only please. and gettin more than 15 MPG outta a 600-800HP one at that. u want torque u dont go Power Stroke. and ur a moron if u go automatic in a Cummins, not using the full potential or intended use of the motor.

[_CH_]

hmmm show me 6L that is pushin over 800HP on #2 only please. and gettin more than 15 MPG outta a 600-800HP one at that. u want torque u dont go Power Stroke. and ur a moron if u go automatic in a Cummins, not using the full potential or intended use of the motor.


um.... look one post above ya:upyours:

[6LCummins]

i almost gaurantee rich dont get over 15MPG but he has a bad ass truck nonetheless

[UNBROKEN]

Me ?...nope...I don't get 15 mpg.
Last time I hand calculated on the highway...I averaged 21.6 @ 80 mph.
David Lott was following me pulling a 30' trailer with his 500+ HP 7.3 loaded with his race truck and associated gear...he was knocking down close to 12 mpg @ 80 mph....again...hand calculated.

22.6 @ 70 mph....just in case you wanted to know.

[heinzboy]

Me ?...nope...I don't get 15 mpg.
Last time I hand calculated on the highway...I averaged 21.6 @ 80 mph.
David Lott was following me pulling a 30' trailer with his 500+ HP 7.3 loaded with his race truck and associated gear...he was knocking down close to 12 mpg @ 80 mph....again...hand calculated.

22.6 @ 70 mph....just in case you wanted to know.

DAMN.....I would be happy as hell to get 15 unloaded.

[mikeym]

lol, toby youll never get as good a mileage as a lowered 2wd. i dont see why you cant get 15 unloaded though, as i get 14 in my truck with a couple hundred pounds of fuel in the bed.

[fuzzys69]

when i had a stock turbo, and 190cc injectors, SCT, ehaust, intake, 4" lift with 35's pro comp m/t
i got 18mpg mixed between highway and city

[_CH_]

DAMN.....I would be happy as hell to get 15 unloaded.

ya - i get atleast 15, and if i do and mikey gets 14... you should get better than both of us for sure

[6LCummins]

Me ?...nope...I don't get 15 mpg.
Last time I hand calculated on the highway...I averaged 21.6 @ 80 mph.
David Lott was following me pulling a 30' trailer with his 500+ HP 7.3 loaded with his race truck and associated gear...he was knocking down close to 12 mpg @ 80 mph....again...hand calculated.

22.6 @ 70 mph....just in case you wanted to know.

thats baddass MR CLEAN, but are u runnin alll 800 all the time? not tryin to knock ya, im glad that atleast one ford is gettin good mileage

[_CH_]

mikey and i would get A LOT better MPG, if it were not for our tire choices,etc

[6LCummins]

if u say so. but wat gears yall runnin?

[_CH_]

i do say so, cause i remember when i did get better MPG
as for gears ill give you a hint: they have teeth on them

[6LCummins]

wow thats funny, its always ford guys that have to be unwilling to share informatin huh....i was lookin gear ratio, not a smart ass answer but ok. to his his own, but then again, ive never seen a more than one ford or even heard of one that is runnin over 600 constantly, rich is the only one ive ever heard of. but then again there are hundreds of cummins out there doin it.

[fuzzys69]

im pretty sure im over 600 hp

[6LCummins]

Rich(MR CLEAN) is the only one that owns a ford and is over 600HP and getting better than 15 MPG that i know of. and im not sure wat gears he is runnin to do it either. but he is the only one i know of gettin both of them numbers high.

[fuzzys69]

i still get about 15-16 mpg

[6LCummins]

ok now that is 2 ppl then....where are the rest at? cuz to me it seems like a fluke if a ford gets over 15. which is a shame, i like the trucks and all but the mileage and pukin problems dont seem like they are worth the time or money really.

[_CH_]

i dont puke a single drop

[Abrannan19]

so stick with your cummins then..

[banksforddiesel99]

no coolant lost here either!

[heinzboy]

This has to be the longest and most off topic thread there is on GOGO.

[npccpartsman]

Maybe, but I know someone who ran 250's and got 24mpg hand calculated. It's about the tuning and efficiency of the injectors.

[6LCummins]

does that same person have problems holding motors together???

[_CH_]

6L,
i tell ya what - i just got a fresh tank of fuel. ill drive normally and let ya know what kind of MPG i get

[TXHNTR]

Nick, why are you in the FORD forums? Shouldnt you be down the page a little in the Cummins forums???

[_CH_]

well.... i mean.... he has a chevy, with a cummins....out of a case.
Hes gotta be kinda confused to begin with

[TXHNTR]

no joke, all he needs is a torqshift behind the cummins and he will have covered all the manufacturers bases...

[6LCummins]

no the torque shift is an automatic...im actually lookin into a ZF6 for my truck

[TXHNTR]

ok smartass...:upyours: and your tractor truck...

[6LCummins]

ur just jealous:upyours: LOL

[TXHNTR]

jealous? :upyours: why would i be jealous? Cause you have a tractor motor and a hand shaker? I could have one too, its called a John Deere...

[_CH_]

jealous? :upyours: why would i be jealous? Cause you have a tractor motor and a hand shaker? I could have one too, its called a John Deere...

hey i like my john deere! :upyours:
of course, im keeping it a tractor, and its staying out at the ranch....but i like it as a tractor:D

[TXHNTR]

Ok, i was making the point that a John Deere is respectable means of tractor motor usage, not a 1988 chevy c30... so :upyours:



hey i like my john deere! :upyours:
of course, im keeping it a tractor, and its staying out at the ranch....but i like it as a tractor:D

[_CH_]

lol, ya i know what you were sayin but i like starting shit :D :upyours:
but i would like to know who got the cluster fuck of an idea and WHY they did it....to put a cummins from a tractor into a chevy?

[TXHNTR]

I would hope it had to do with alcohol and a bet...

[6LCummins]

i wouldnt know. i didnt do it. and u realize they are basically the same motor right??? 5.9 in a dodge compared to the 5.9 in a tractor? oh wait u probably didnt.

[TXHNTR]

well i am sure they are close but 5.9L doesnt = 6.0L dumbass...

[_CH_]

its still a stupid fucking idea, if it works for you - cool. but whoever did it and/or got the idea to do it was a dumbshit

TXHNTR - he has it bored over

[TXHNTR]

WOO-HOO a RACING tractor engine...

[abobb]

If you have a boost level that remains efficient and burns off all the fuel you have and you have a pressue level in the motor that is driven off of a small amount of exhaust pressure. Do you really want people to mount a larger turbo in front of the small one? I know someone has taken that approach from the sled pullers and has run with it.

Compound turbocharging
Compound turbocharging is a technique used to achieve extremely high pressure ratios by having one turbocharger pressurize the air coming into the inlet of another. It is common in racing with diesel engines (For example tractor pulling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractor_pulling)) due to their combustion properties that take well to high boost pressures and are not limited by fuel stability like spark ignition engines. Boost pressures of around seven bar gauge pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_pressure) (101 psi) are common and as high as 10 bar (145psi) in some cases. A normal turbocharger has a maximum pressure ratio of around three but there are turbochargers in existence specially designed for high boost which have maximum pressure ratios of typically 4-5. In this configuration one turbocharger is used to pressurize the air coming into the inlet of the other, resulting in a multiplication of the pressure ratios. Same goes for exhaust plumbing. For example if both turbochargers are running at pressure ratios of 3.0 and the atmospheric pressure is one bar the resulting pressures will be three bar absolute pressure at the inlet of the second turbocharger and nine bar absolute pressure (eight bar gauge) at the inlet manifold of the engine. The pressure ratio in this example becomes nine.
An example of an engine utilising this configuration is at Cummins Racing (http://www.cumminsracing.com/)

Thats straight off of wikipedia.

So yes you caught me. I should have called it sequential twins in one.

Doug.. I know that this info isn't yours.. that is was something you found while doing research, but there is some measure of innaccuracy in it.. and I wanted to point that out.

The theory in the wikipedia article is good. And they actually to some degree point you towards the correct branch of motorsports to see this type of system taken to extremes. They just don't go far enough, or get all of the numbers right.

Tractor pullers are producing boost levels in excess of 100 lbs on a regular basis with extremely large single turbo systems. These have massive lag, and must be fully spooled before launching or will fall flat on their face.

When tractor pullers start using compound turbo chargers in series, things get very interesting. For one thing, wastegates have become very common on these systems, because they found that at boost levels above 240 psi (yes they have gone over that number) once you can make the head stay on, the block tends to split. Diesel tractor pulling engines commonly have multiple stage turbo systems with as many as 4 turbos arranged in 3 pressure stages. These systems, like the super large singles are designed for top end, and have massive amounts of lag.

[EPDP99]

I get like 12mpg unloaded. thats good right???

[TXHNTR]

thats awesome mileage...

[mikeym]

nick, you are retarded. fact is, there are very few 6.0s that DONT get 15mpg when setup properly. for example, i got shitty mileage with 38s and 3.73s, but now its back to 14 around town and 18-20 on the highway depending on speed, after a gear swap. and i dont pussy foot around town either, and have a couple hundred pounds in the bed at all times...

[Abrannan19]

I thought my mileage really sucked too..come to find out..on the way home from suncoast..(I WAS BORED)..i figured it out (duh) that my odometer was off by approx .075 per mile..so when I got to the station and multiplied my mileage..(280) by .075..I came up with 21 more miles then what my odometer said..so I had went 301 miles..and my mileage figured out to 14.1 and thats the same thing that the comp called out..and that was running 76 to 80 and playing with a mustang and camaro and playing around up to 100+ a couple of times..not to bad IMO

[mikeym]

you only got 300 out of a 40 gallon tank?

[npccpartsman]

does that same person have problems holding motors together???

no he doesn't, why?

[heinzboy]

you only got 300 out of a 40 gallon tank?

Thats 7.5 mpg WTF?

[6L strokin]

wow, injectors, turbos, mpg, tractors, whats next? haha.....why dont we all just go out and buy a $120,000 custom F650 with tvs inside, air ride suspension and a 1200 lb torque CAT!?!?!? and get 14 mpg! at least that what is claimed from the DPM...they look really cool too though! i havent made a trip with the sct tuner on yet, but when i had the banks i was getting around 19-21.5 mpg at 70

[PSDPlayer]

Doug.. I know that this info isn't yours.. that is was something you found while doing research, but there is some measure of innaccuracy in it.. and I wanted to point that out.

The theory in the wikipedia article is good. And they actually to some degree point you towards the correct branch of motorsports to see this type of system taken to extremes. They just don't go far enough, or get all of the numbers right.

Tractor pullers are producing boost levels in excess of 100 lbs on a regular basis with extremely large single turbo systems. These have massive lag, and must be fully spooled before launching or will fall flat on their face.

When tractor pullers start using compound turbo chargers in series, things get very interesting. For one thing, wastegates have become very common on these systems, because they found that at boost levels above 240 psi (yes they have gone over that number) once you can make the head stay on, the block tends to split. Diesel tractor pulling engines commonly have multiple stage turbo systems with as many as 4 turbos arranged in 3 pressure stages. These systems, like the super large singles are designed for top end, and have massive amounts of lag.


I know, I just pulled it from wiki cause I didn't feel like typing.

[PSDPlayer]

Ok so since I use my father to act as general population I let him do on the highway testing for me. The truck has Airaid with pre-filter and a silverline 304 stainless dual exhaust. It is an 07 F-350 crew cab dually long bed 4x2 with a tow boss package. So it has 4.30s in it. He set the cruise control at 60mph and the computer spit out 18.3mpg. He then upped the mph to 65 and reset the computer and it spit out 17.4mpg. On the flipside. While towing the 40ft gooseneck trailer it got 7.4 miles per gallon running 60mph while loaded. And it got a little over 12mpg comming back unloaded. What was the loaded weight you ask? 36,960lbs truck and trailer combined weight.

[Abrannan19]

you only got 300 out of a 40 gallon tank?


Thats 7.5 mpg WTF?

where in my paragraph did I say I filled up from empty?..it was less then a half a tank..and I got 301 miles out of..PAY ATTENTION..:rolleyes:

[mikeym]

what the fuck good does that do. keep track of how far you can go on less than a half a tank? real precise there adam. another completely pointless post...

[Abrannan19]

You Fucking Retard..it Doesn't Have To Be Empty To Figure Mileage..

[mikeym]

so how many gallons is "a little less than half"??? kinda tough to hand calculate when you dont know what youre startin with

if you fill it up, you know exactly how much you got.

fuckin retard.

[Abrannan19]

Ok Look..here Is The Math You Retard..
I Filled Up(all The Way To The Top Of The Neck) 1 Mile Prior To Getting On The Interstae..i Drove 301 Miles Added 21.34 Gallons Of Fuel(filled To The Top Of The Neck)..divided 301 By 21.34 And Figure 14.10..

That Is Precise You DIPSHIT!!

Now Lets Talk About Useless Post

[jschall]

Have not been arround much ...but I can get 19 easy driving with a full fuel system and 190's.....now roal the coal and the mpg's go.....nice to see yall...
jschall

[heinzboy]

Have not been arround much ...but I can get 19 easy driving with a full fuel system and 190's.....now roal the coal and the mpg's go.....nice to see yall...
jschall

The man speaks...LOL I dont think you got 19 mpg when i was driving your truck. More like 9 mpg.:D

[mikeym]

Ok Look..here Is The Math You Retard..
I Filled Up(all The Way To The Top Of The Neck) 1 Mile Prior To Getting On The Interstae..i Drove 301 Miles Added 21.34 Gallons Of Fuel(filled To The Top Of The Neck)..divided 301 By 21.34 And Figure 14.10..

That Is Precise You DIPSHIT!!

Now Lets Talk About Useless Post


LOL

[banksforddiesel99]

Ok Look..here Is The Math You Retard..
I Filled Up(all The Way To The Top Of The Neck) 1 Mile Prior To Getting On The Interstae..i Drove 301 Miles Added 21.34 Gallons Of Fuel(filled To The Top Of The Neck)..divided 301 By 21.34 And Figure 14.10..

That Is Precise You DIPSHIT!!

Now Lets Talk About Useless Post
OWNED!!!!! LOL

[mikeym]

OWNED!!!!! LOL

ask adam who got OWNED when we raced...:eek:

[Abrannan19]

big whoop..

be more precise..when we raced "QUADS"

a 734 vs. 450..

[mikeym]

all the shit you talked about how fast your 450 was dismissed the displacement difference. its just your excuse after the fact...

you really think your 365hp truck will outrun me?

i smell a repeat...

[heinzboy]

you really think your 365hp truck will outrun me?

i smell a repeat...

His Truck has 347HP Mikey.


Adam Brannon 6.0 2004 F350 347 692.1

[Abrannan19]

my 450 will smoke(or give you a very good run for the money) you in the 1/8th..top end you got me all day.. we both knew it would never be a race in the beginning..I talk shit and so do you..

let me see your trucks' dyno numbers with the tires and gears that you are running currently..then talk to me..but I ain't scared to race

the whole point is you were trying to be a smartass about my milage figures and it turned out you made a complete ass of yourself..well..thats nothing new for you anyways..proceed!

[mikeym]

adam, are you really serious? am i gonna have to bring the raptor back down to put down an ass whoopin again? we can mark out 300ft and 660. best case, you might get me in a 300ft drag, ONLY because mine makes too much power. i dont think you realize how far a 1/8th mile is. im in 5th gear at 300ft. anything in the dirt, you dont stand a chance.

347hp vs 400hp. hardly seems fair...

[Abrannan19]

show me a dyno with 2007 on it that shows 400..the way it sits now!

[heinzboy]

Not 07 but an 06 as it SITS NOW.

[Abrannan19]

doesnt he have new gears now?

and all of you said the dyno was partial to the cummins..so is my truck really making 347..or did the mess with me..who know?

[heinzboy]

There is too many factors involved in a DAMN dyno.

[mikeym]

hes got an excuse for everything..

[Abrannan19]

I love how you see an excuse in a question..

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Abrannan19/arguing.jpg

IM DONE..its really useless..if I prove one thing he comes out with another..

[heinzboy]

I love how you see an excuse in a question..

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Abrannan19/arguing.jpg

IM DONE..its really useless..if I prove one thing he comes out with another..

LMFAO

[UNBROKEN]

Screw a dyno...there's too many variables.
Run a full 1/4 mile pass then run the trap speed and weight through a HP calculator....you'll have a better idea of how much power you're putting down that way...IMHO.

[npccpartsman]

LOL--for those of us with the one wheel peel syndrome it sucks to try it that way tho Rich

[mikeym]

the 1 wheel peel will only hurt your et. your trap speed shouldnt really be affected...

lol adam

[LIPD]

LOL--for those of us with the one wheel peel syndrome it sucks to try it that way tho Rich


New Toy on order for you just becuase you left one tire mark in front of my house...

[npccpartsman]

Oops. Sorry, didn't mean to piss off your new neighbors--lol. Didn't even know it did it. Glad to see you're back up and running. Heard the latest about Smokin?

[LIPD]

You didnt piss off my new nieghbors, But it's kinda lame so i am telling everyone i did it on my Yahamie.

No, (about smokin) but i heard your hittin the rollers ASAP... Cause i hate waiting...lol

[GRANNY]

Thanks for taking up for the old lady! LOL She tries hard to make 2 marks but just can't seem to figure it out! LOL

[PSDPlayer]

I don't have any issues leaving 4 really long black lines.

[_CH_]

youre just special....
i can leave 2 sometimes, and 1 others

[nummit]

I left 2 until one fateful day when I pulled a holeshot and heard a grinding/slipping noise in the rear. The tires did not burn, but the clutch pack sure did
One wheel peel ever since...boo

[heinzboy]

I can leave 4 black marks easy also. If I really tried I could get 6 black marks, but they wouldnt be very long.

[Abrannan19]

I can do four also..LOL (this is why I need new rear tires LOL)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Abrannan19/Daytona%20GTG/P9240055.jpg
Thats Doug's House in the background LOL
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Abrannan19/Suncoast%202007/DSC02963.jpg

[nummit]

Nice!!!

[mikeym]

cough cough 347hp cough cough PHOTOSHOP cough


LOL

good picture!

[Abrannan19]

cough cough :upyours cough cough

[jschall]

I'le be your huckleberry.......

[heinzboy]

I'le be your huckleberry.......

AH HA, Thats a bad ass Movie.

[jschall]

one of my favorites Toby....no doubt...

[mikeym]

watched it yesterday

[GRANNY]

This has got to be one of the craziest threads!