some noob advice...please

[Dissociative]

hey all, i have a 2004 6.0 4x4 with 54k on it. I have the frogs tune and thats it now. What in your opinion do i need to do to get to around 500HP and stay street/daily driven.

1-fass system?..size?
2-studs of course
3-stock IC and turbo?

i am new to the big D and want to have my ducks in a row when it pops...any ideas and time lines of what to do first and so on is GREATLY APPRECIATED...

unbroken...i think your knowledgeable?? lol...

just help me out with some advice as to in what order to do the mods, what the effect is...what the danger is...and relative cost...nothing set in stone...just a map to keep in my pocket till i am much smarter...thanks...:thankyou2: :thankyou2: :thankyou2: :thankyou2: :thankyou2:

[heinzboy]

Do you have a budget that your trying to stay within?

[Dissociative]

well, i don't really have a ton of money for it...so yes...i have no budget idea at all...

whats been done is....

1-frogs tune
2-zoo-dad
3-no cat stock down with no muff

i am trying to get me an idea of what i need to have put away if i get the puking...i plow snow and drive a little heavy footed so it's just a matter of time till heads. When i do the heads i want to have all my ducks in a row...so we can do everything at once...and no kicking myself for screw ups due to time.

3-5k..is that realistic?...i dunno.... i owe a ton of $$$ so it's gonna be my truck for the next 4-6 years at least...6-10 more like it...

tires won't be more than 38's, lift no more than 6..has 4 already with 35's..3.73 gears..auto tranny

also....i an total NOOOOOB to 6.0....so....any advice is great..

ORDERED A GOGO COOLANT FILTER 6 MONTHS AGO, BUT NEVER SAW IT?!?!!? DOUGGY!!!!

[Abrannan19]

you need studs, a full egr delete ( i sell one) a welded up pipe and a solid up pipe (to prevent problems down the road) you should go with a FASS 150/180 probably 190's (best al around) an intake if you dont have one. A City Diesel or sSpearco or even banks IC too Regulated return fuel sytem with the fuel flowing thru the back of the heads..yu can make 500hp on a stock turbo..or you you just want a turbo get the hybrid from Industrial Injection or the VGTss but the hybrid turbo is only 1400 vs. vgt being 2900 now I think. As for you trans..I wouldnt do anythng with it until it blows..it may never blow. I would also suggest NOS..its chap and easy HP probably spray and .82 jet and you should be at over 500 hp. Asn I wuld also reccommend a FluidDampnr too..thats the stuff I would do to acheive 500 hp.

you should be able to stay at 5k or under doing the mods if you use a the stock turbo..and get good deals on the stuff.

[_CH_]

if you think youre going to blow it and have the $$ to spare, go ahead and get some studs so youll have them to take in when you take the truck in. if the tech wont do it (many will) try somewhere else, its a diesel it will still drive with blown HGs.

[heinzboy]

So I like to go against the grain a little bit but, if you add more air (big turbo) would you really NEED the IC? I am really curious to know this. Also with the FASS, do you really NEED a regulated fuel system?

[_CH_]

im sure youd see SOME gain with an IC after a turbo (unless J-remy made it) but id bet under normal driving conditions you would be just fine with the stocker after a turbo upgrade?

[Abrannan19]

the only thing..if you get a BIG turbo..it produces more air (more psi)..and the stock IC can only handle so much PSI before they go boom..they also have more surface area then the stocker therefore will keep your EGTS 'SLIGHTLY' cooler.

as for the RR kit..is it 100% necessary..probably not..but our trucks have problems with stock injectors..so anything you can do do help prevent ANY injector problem..I am gonna do it..espically after you spend 2k or so on new sticks..you don't want problems..I also don't want my 5,6,7,8, injectors starving due to all of the fuel being 'hogged' by the front for injectors.

his is not scientifically proven facts..its just simply my opinion..

[heinzboy]

the only thing..if you get a BIG turbo..it produces more air (more psi)..and the stock IC can only handle so much PSI before they go boom..they also have more surface area then the stocker therefore will keep your EGTS 'SLIGHTLY' cooler.

as for the RR kit..is it 100% necessary..probably not..but our trucks have problems with stock injectors..so anything you can do do help prevent ANY injector problem..I am gonna do it..espically after you spend 2k or so on new sticks..you don't want problems..I also don't want my 5,6,7,8, injectors starving due to all of the fuel being 'hogged' by the front for injectors.

his is not scientifically proven facts..its just simply my opinion..

Maybe I would just like to see a low budget high HP ( Diesel fuel only )truck that can work and play thats dependable. :gr_cheers:

[Dissociative]

wtf.......sorry guys...notification not working....great advice....i would like to keep stock IC and turbo perhaps...upgrade sticks and fuel system as heads blow...would that be any good?...

[_CH_]

yup - that'd be the easiest time to do em!

[Dissociative]

ok.....so for the easy mods...lets get them listed....

zoo-dad--------------done
HFCM drain-----------done
buterfly removal------------not done

CCV Reroute -----whats up with this??
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15797

trying to make a "master" mod list....mabey we can make a sticky

[Dissociative]

full egr delete???? $$$???? ------not done..whats involved?..intake nipple?..

[_CH_]

you might not (probably wont) have a butterfly to remove

as for the HFCM drain - what did you do? just put in the new knob thingy (technical term) so it wont strip?

[heinzboy]

If he gets the fass 150/180 he won't need the HFCM anymore.

[Dissociative]

yeah...the navistar part number...

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-19.php



i guess we should add the accufab elbow??...or not?

[Dissociative]

is this the crossover fuel???
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28309

whats it do??....

and what about this?..it's what your referring too right?

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/projects/Fuel/

regulated return??...it says 7.3???

[Dissociative]

and what about this CCV relocate??..and details on the egr you offer

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15797

[banksforddiesel99]

CCR Reroute reroutes all the crap like oil and stuff from going into your intake, it's on the bottom intake tubing, a little black line going into it. Plug it off, and reroute the house coming from the back of the head down to the frame and let it dump out. Thats pretty much what you do. It helps with keeping the intercooler boots from getting so oily and keeps the intercooler and inside of pipe from getting oiled up.

[_CH_]

CCR Reroute reroutes all the crap like oil and stuff from going into your intake, it's on the bottom intake tubing, a little black line going into it. Plug it off, and reroute the house coming from the back of the head down to the frame and let it dump out. Thats pretty much what you do. It helps with keeping the intercooler boots from getting so oily and keeps the intercooler and inside of pipe from getting oiled up.

yup - youll have to take the intake off almost all the way to the turbo to see it tho(its in the hard part) . there will be a little triangle looking thing sticking up blocking a portion of the air flow.... thats what pull the vapors and subsequently why your CAC boots blow off.
your IC is probably already pretty dirty/fouled tho.... but its really nothing to be worried about. fix it sometime if you have some free time - you might see a benefit you might not.

[heinzboy]

The crossover fuel line is a dog to install.

[Dissociative]

ok.....CCV is next on the warm day list.....

now about the cross over fuel line....whats the difference between that a a regulated return?? do i need both?

[heinzboy]

If you buy the fass 150/180 would you really need RRS?

PS, I moved this out of the SCT tuning forum.

[darsey715]

ya i would just get dj's kit. I don't plan on fass anytime in the near future. but dj's kit very 'soon'. congrats and good luck

[Dissociative]

thanks for the move......

come on guys....elaborate on these kits...the difference...i have no idea whats what...
and i have no idea how to answer your question either...enlighten me,...

[heinzboy]

You need some gauges also.

[diesel71]

thanks for the move......

come on guys....elaborate on these kits...the difference...i have no idea whats what...
and i have no idea how to answer your question either...enlighten me,...

a fuel regulated return will run fuel threw the heads and back to a regulater were the fuel pressure can be adjusted to your liking. a full regulated system will keep the injectors full at all loads & fuel volume demands,it can be installed with the stock pump or a aftermarket like the fass. this sytem will take care of the fuel pressure spikes and pulse waves created by the injectors when they fire.
the crossover line is made to use the stock fuel system and balance out the fuel pressure in both heads,it also takes care of the pressure spikes & pulse waves. you can use the crossover line with dj"s fuel system as it does not have lines from the back of the heads.
imao all you need is a crossover line and bigger front feed lines to the heads.
of all the fuel systems i have installed the crossover and bigger front lines seem to work the best with the best price. unless you are going big hp/tq then a full system would be needed.

[heinzboy]

I do know with 225cc sticks and Elites full RR system I was dropping fuel pressure on WOT. I added the Fass and all is golden.

[Dissociative]

so...to be clear...the regulated return system is made by DJ and others, and does NOT contain a cross over line but does benefit from it? this has new feed and return lines i assume?.or are stock lines sufficient?

a fass is ONLY a pump....and goes in the tank in the OEM location?..

i am not going big numbers, it's my daily driver....but i am spending a lil on her..so..elaborate on the bigger front feed lines....do i need to fabricate those?

i am learning so much...thank you guys....

as far as gauges....can i get by without a trans gauge now that i have the maghytech pan?.. i was going to go with this and put a column pod in the middle...so i can stay sleeper...i have my truck set-up as a sleeper...no badges for 6.0..ect..ect i don't want a pillar giveaway

left side pyro-------column--??-------right side boost
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/images/15003.jpg

[diesel71]

the fuel system that dj offers does not include the crossover line but can be added.
the other regulated fuel systems dont need a crossover because they return fuel from the back of the heads and have the bigger front fuel feed lines. the fass system mounts onto the frame rail pump and filters,not inside the tank. check out some fuel system and pm or ask here and ill tale you all i know about it,to help out.

[Abrannan19]

yes..the fuel + from DJ is not a RR kit..found that out today..doesn't really seem to be too beneficial unless its a dj supporter then it makes a huge difference and added 80 more HP..

as for the EGR delete what we do on our kit is have 90* elbows machined and welded together and plug off EGR valve (no more clogged valves)the existing cooler line and reroute the water to go straight from the intake manifold to the oil cooler this prevents any chances of puking or flash boils. You will also need to have a welded up pipe too. people that you hear talking about having studs and still puking is because you can still have EGR cooler issues that cause puking even with studs installed. there is only one way to prevent it. The big difference between our kits and others is that it has the machined elbows instead of just a rubber hose..since its such a short distance and a sharp radius the metal 90's prevent any chances of crimping..

[heinzboy]

still waiting on a price for that Adam

[Abrannan19]

posted here? or was I supposed to tell you a price?

[Dissociative]

ok...i think i can wait till i do sticks for the pump and fuel system...by then i will have it dialed in and know what i want i hope...possibly do the cross over if it's beneficial to a stock motor...

i am aware that heads and egr can cause 2 different puking issues..
this egr...this interests due to the minimal puking i have already..spotty degas o plenty here..how hard is it to do the delete? i have seen how to remove the valve, but do i need to pull a ton of stuff off (better to wait?)

if there is some easy stuff i can do BEFORE my unavoidable stud install i would like to. unless it's just double work.

sorry for my ignorance, unlike most of you i have not had the pleasure of poking around the new motor yet...so i have no "hands on"

[heinzboy]

so...to be clear...the regulated return system is made by DJ and others, and does NOT contain a cross over line but does benefit from it? this has new feed and return lines i assume?.or are stock lines sufficient?

a fass is ONLY a pump....and goes in the tank in the OEM location?..

i am not going big numbers, it's my daily driver....but i am spending a lil on her..so..elaborate on the bigger front feed lines....do i need to fabricate those?

i am learning so much...thank you guys....

as far as gauges....can i get by without a trans gauge now that i have the maghytech pan?.. i was going to go with this and put a column pod in the middle...so i can stay sleeper...i have my truck set-up as a sleeper...no badges for 6.0..ect..ect i don't want a pillar giveaway

left side pyro-------column--??-------right side boost
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/images/15003.jpg

The fass 150/180 replaces your stock pump.

I would say you need these gauges in a quad overhead pod. http://www.autometer.com/cat_mountsdetail.aspx?vid=49&sid=0&mid=3&pg=2&mdl=59&gw=0
Fuel pressure, Oil pressure, Boost, Trans. Pyro. I know thats 5 gauges. LOL

[Abrannan19]

all you will have to do is unbolt you intake manifold and reinstall the new one supplied and tighten on hose clamp and reinstall the parts..probably for someone with no mechanical experience I would say it could be done in 4 hours or less..depending on your experience level. After you bolt on the new and remove the old intake you will send me back the core.

[Abrannan19]

The fass 150/180 replaces your stock pump.

I would say you need these gauges in a quad overhead pod. http://www.autometer.com/cat_mountsdetail.aspx?vid=49&sid=0&mid=3&pg=2&mdl=59&gw=0
Fuel pressure, Oil pressure, Boost, Trans. Pyro. I know thats 5 gauges. LOL

and I would say oil temp water temp fuel pressure trans boost and pyro

[heinzboy]

and I would say oil temp water temp fuel pressure trans boost and pyro

oil temp and water temps readings should be close to each other no?

[Dissociative]

hey Adam....what trade are you in BTW?.. i am a carpenter...

man..i guess i needed more gauges than i thought....

how soon can i get the intake?...

and i was peeping that overhead one too.....prolly do both

[Abrannan19]

yes..but if one gets higher you wanna know before its too late..you wanna know if you oils temps are getting too hot due to a possible clogged oil cooler. and if you still have the egr cooler ( I still want one and I dont have it) just to keep an eye on water temps..sometimes they get warm and you need to back off..

[Abrannan19]

hey Adam....what trade are you in BTW?.. i am a carpenter...

man..i guess i needed more gauges than i thought....

how soon can i get the intake?...

FL CBC (Florida, certified building contractor)

yes. I suggest those gauges for your safety.

the intakes will be ready real soon..probably a week.

[heinzboy]

I here the coins keep racking up. LOL

[heinzboy]

i NEED A free INTAKE.

[Abrannan19]

what do I get in return? LOL

[heinzboy]

a CORE back. LOL

[Abrannan19]

umm..I will get that anyways..LOL get me an extra core and we may talk LOL

[heinzboy]

Honestly Dissociative, You have to ask yourself if you really want to spend the money. I am sure you can already tell things get expensive FAST. I know there is good deals out there but still. I can see roughly in the neighborhood of $7500-$10 grand.

[Abrannan19]

Honestly Dissociative, You have to ask yourself if you really want to spend the money. I am sure you can already tell things get expensive FAST. I know there is good deals out there but still. I can see roughly in the neighborhood of $7500-$10 grand.

very true..but you don't have to do everything at the same time..

if you blow the gaskets..thats the time to do studs any mods to the heads injectors etc,etc.RR fuel and maybe a FASS

[Dissociative]

why do you want a egr cooler?.. am i not removing mine with your kit?

[Abrannan19]

i dont want your egr cooler..I want you intake manifold back. the horseshoe item on the top of you motor.

[heinzboy]

very true..but you don't have to do everything at the same time..

if you blow the gaskets..thats the time to do studs any mods to the heads injectors etc,etc.RR fuel and maybe a FASS

Your correct and thats what I did because its easier.

[Dissociative]

yes..but if one gets higher you wanna know before its too late..you wanna know if you oils temps are getting too hot due to a possible clogged oil cooler. and if you still have the egr cooler ( I still want one and I dont have it) just to keep an eye on water temps..sometimes they get warm and you need to back off..
i must have misunderstood...you want a coolant temp gauge?..

7-10 grand.....no way....90% of what i am doing is to keep my truck going strong..and reliable...and of course i want to go fast too...but i would buy a mustang before i spent 10k on this truck...

[Abrannan19]

water temp and coolant temp..same thing

[Dissociative]

Your correct and thats what I did because its easier.

thats my plan....do it all 1 time...just figured i can do some easy stuff first...

at least my CCV... i have had training and an very good with the 40g's in the big red S-O tool chest i have

[heinzboy]

i must have misunderstood...you want a coolant temp gauge?..

7-10 grand.....no way....90% of what i am doing is to keep my truck going strong..and reliable...and of course i want to go fast too...but i would buy a mustang before i spent 10k on this truck...

Better start looking at a mustang then
Turbo= $2000
Sticks= $2000
Head studs, gaskets, gauges, fuel system, 2000 grand.
Your around $6000 right there.

[Dissociative]

well....i wanted to retain the stock turbo....and IC...

sticks...wow....never knew....head gaskets...i have warranty..3/36 bought in 10/07 soo....

[heinzboy]

well....i wanted to retain the stock turbo....and IC...

sticks...wow....never knew....head gaskets...i have warranty..3/36 bought in 10/07 soo....

AND? Your dealer Mod friendly?

[Dissociative]

so,....without sticks...or a fuel system...is the crossover line worth putting on?..

dealer has 1 diesel guy....friend of a friend...and he doesn;t believe you can reflash...he has no idea what a tune even is..or does...and hes a friend of a friend...not to mention there is a dealer who does all the high performance stuff that install studs...so i may go there...

[heinzboy]

so,....without sticks...or a fuel system...is the crossover line worth putting on?..

dealer has 1 diesel guy....friend of a friend...and he doesn;t believe you can reflash...he has no idea what a tune even is..or does...and hes a friend of a friend...not to mention there is a dealer who does all the high performance stuff that install studs...so i may go there...

I would find out BEFORE you really get into modding these things. Some dealers will void your warranty for an exhaust.

[Dissociative]

took it in with no cat or muff....they all laughed...liked it

[Dissociative]

so,....without sticks...or a fuel system...is the crossover line worth putting on?..no turbo...just a tune

better to wait tilli get the bette rkit that has it already? the Reg Ret kit

[heinzboy]

Thats cool. :gr_cheers:

I was just trying to let you know what kind of $$$ were talking before you even started.

[heinzboy]

so,....without sticks...or a fuel system...is the crossover line worth putting on?..no turbo...just a tune

As Diesel71 already pointed out, YES

[Dissociative]

As Diesel71 already pointed out, YES

so i guess the whole regulated return thing is debatable..
how about the front lines?..i got no answer about those...fab em?..buy em?

stuff like the cross over and junk i can do in a driveway as long as it's cheap enough and helps the motor....and easy enough...i want to do as much prep as i can while i can..not pay someone else to do it