nos and lp in the same bottle???

[bones]

Yes, it is possible to mix them (which is why I said in an earlier post that I reserve the right to send a sample from the nitrous tank to our labs for analysis). Nitrous won't react with propane at ambient conditions; it has to get hot to dissociate and release the oxygen. Then, watch out.


didnt want to start another discussion in an already hot thread.the fellow that made this claim seems to be knowledgable but i just dont see this ever happening.thoughts?i intend this at a slam for no one but as a learning process ....jess

[ralphinnj]

There are systems with NOS and propane co-delivered (the systems for Vipers comes to mind). The gases are mixed prior to intake; the nitrous is inert in terms of combustion until it gets hot enough to "dissociate." Dissociation is when the nitrogen and the oxygen (nitrous oxide has the formula N2O) separate, and at that time, the oxygen is available to support combustion (just as the oxygen that is in intake air is). So, the idea in these systems is that the intake is relatively cold, especially with the expanding nitrous (which makes things cold), so the nitrous will not dissociate there. I mention this because if it did, it would probably explode in the presence of propane. So, in principle, one can co mix propane and nitrous and feed them and this is the equivalent of adding more air and more fuel, all as a gas phase material. When the piston compresses the mixture, it gets very hot and the nitrous dissociates and bam. In practice, the way one would do it is, you would have your nitrous bottle all piped in and all you need is a regulated propane tank fed into the same intake piping. Assuming your propane regualtor is set properly, every time the intake valve opens, the intake charge is a mixture of air, nitrous and propane. Valve closes. Piston compresses. Temperatures rise. Piston reaches ~TDC, diesel fuel is injected and combustion begins raising temperatures even further, nitrous dissociates and you get the full combustion potential of the mixture. The trick is to make sure you don't start combustion of the propane too long before the diesel fuel is injected. I'm not an expert on what propane/nitrous/air/diesel ratios are needed to make this set up run, but in principle, it works, and I know it is done.

Ralph

[bones]

ok i understand the different lp and different nos setups,but you do realize that they must be injected at different places because the extreme cold of the nos would make the lp become liguid again and produce hydro lock.i got the impression you knew of a way to hold nos and lp in the same bottle and inject them...

[heinzboy]

I think the question is, Can you mix propane and nos in the SAME tank or am I wrong?

[ralphinnj]

This all stemmed from how alternate (additional) fuel could be sneaked in. I think in principle, the two could be mixed and released together. I would have to work out the vapor pressures for the mixture, and also confirm no reaction takes place, but in principle, you could do it.

Propane can liquify. I looked at the charts, propane has a vapor pressure of 60psi at around 30F, and close to 200psi at 100F. I know that expanding nitrous cools the intake charge, but I don't think it does so enough to condense the propane. That is, with the figures above, if you are adding 60 psi of propane, you would have to get below 30F in the mixture before it would be close to condensing.

Ralph

[heinzboy]

^^^^^^ Chemical Engineer?

[mattsn]

^^^^^^ Chemical Engineer?


lol how did you guess that Toby

[heinzboy]

lol how did you guess that Toby

Read his post. :hehe:

[bones]

the low temps of the nos would cause the lp to be in a non vapor state,if you sent the nos and lp mixture through a process to elevate the temps to the point that the lp would be vapoer the nos would be at a huge psi an extremely hot.dont think you will ever get a mixture that would ever out do a plain nos shot

[heinzboy]

Thats prolly why most people run 2 separate bottles. However I am still curious if it can be mixed in the same tank.

[bones]

pretty sure it cant be done but if it could id be willing to try it

[heinzboy]

Make one up and see....LOL

[ralphinnj]

Why don't you think it can be done?

[heinzboy]

you saying it cant be done? I know there is propane/nitrous rockets.

[bones]

dont think you will ever get a mixture that would ever out do a plain nos shot,i not sying they cant be mixed but dont think it would be beneficial.as far as the rocket could be but d you reallly think the stock 6.0 head gasket will handle it....

[ralphinnj]

I think that depends on how much fuel you can send. If you have stock injectors (and therefore have some limitations in fuel delivery...well, most stock injectors do...there are some that have special powers), a propane/nitrous add could allow for total burn and some more energy since propane is a fuel.

Ralph

[bones]

il give you that seperate setups will produce more power but i just dont think you could get a working mixture to operate properly in the same tank...

[heinzboy]

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=181200&page=13

[ralphinnj]

So basically, it is possible, but probably a little on the dangerous side. Note they needed a catalyst to get it to go. Probably will sit in a tank for a long time without anything in there to promote the reaction.

Ralph

[WAO Racing]

So in ? here.....Do you still need that sample?

[ralphinnj]

I would say that mixing the two is not advised (possible, but not advised). I also am guessing you are not doing that, so no sample there! Let's focus on something else. Besides you and Mr. 755, who else has run mid 12's with stock injectors? I mean, aren't there a hundred 6.0's accross the country with that set up? Help me get comfortable with it.....if it is possible, there must be others who are doing it. Right?

Ralph

[WAO Racing]

I'm trying to help make you more comfortable for your flight back home.... you will have less to carry in your wallet for starters.

[ralphinnj]

So we are back on that? I thought you said no one can take your truck apart to see what is really in it? Until that changes, get off it.

Ralph

[6L strokin]

this was a pretty interesting thread, how bout bringing it back to life and see if theres any more info arisin from it...

[iracemx6]

this was a pretty interesting thread, how bout bringing it back to life and see if theres any more info arisin from it...

Damn....you go from posting that you want to swap all your shit back to stock to wanting to blow it the fuck up in the same day.

Make up your mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[!!!PainTrain!!!]

:dead-horse-fast2::banging:

[Dissociative]

yeah....i didn't know frankie mixes nos and pane...lol..i was always joking about that...didn't know people really talked about it..

ralph has some really interesting posts around.....

[03F250Stroke]

Damn....you go from posting that you want to swap all your shit back to stock to wanting to blow it the fuck up in the same day.

Make up your mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:nx::rockwoot: